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A Scripture is anything proclaimed directly by God or Jesus anything else is just a verse. It is very important that the we as Christians understand this because alot of people get them mixed up and well wind up calling man's opinion Godly truth when it may not be.

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perhaps paula and Joyce have different views than some of us but that does not mean they are not called and annointed by God to be his ministers. we all get it wrong from time to time. and all of this exposing of how they spend the money from their ministry......what are you doing? are you condeming paula for reaching into the upperclass to establish friends and connections in the stars of our age. and why are you even bringing up what they spend and how. just because they didnt use the money the way you would have. If God feels that either or both of them are misusing or downright abusing their God given position then he will bring about justice in this matter. such things are not for us...especially not for us to gossip over.

Jason- the infallable Standard of Truth is God himself. as you said the bible would be no base for our convictions and it should not be..........the base of our faith the base of our life the base of our hope and convictions should be belief in Jesus himself. The Holy Spirit should be the suitable means for testing and cultivating your spirit and as far as resistance goes. Do you agree that we are to follow Jesus examples as read in the Gospels........I'm sure you do..........Jesus spent his time in the midst of the sinners the worst of the worst and he ministered unto them and brought them salvation.....Cleary this is an example of how to minister to the lost.......however Paul cleary warned the christians to stay away from the sinner and to keep to the church these teachings contradict and resist each other. now i am not saying that all of paul's teachings are not valid most of them are. and i too believe that a person should be taught how to minister before being let loose to do so. and this might be what paul was talking about but he did not make it clear but what he did make clear is that christians are to have nothing to do with non Christians. why do people search for passages that support their views but overlook the ones that contradict what they believe. God is not the author of confusion, and God did not author all of the bible

Barry- you said No one here, that I know of, is going to fault you for this statement as many of us think little of the modern church, yet the reason you give for their perscution might be better clarified. They were not bringing on "new" opinions of the bible so much as exposing the hypocracy within the church and its false teaching that had moved away from scripture. To those hearing them it may have seemed new simply because they were mostly illiterate and reliant upon a corrupt church for truth. Anything that returned to scripture weakened the position of the corrupt church and brought on persecution accordingly
what i am doing is similar but i am not attempting to expose hypocrisy but to expose a little white lie that was told many years ago and waspassed down from generation to generation. and I'm not saying not to read your bible their are many laws and commandments and wise teachings in the bible and one should read their bible but i am simply saying no one can understand the bible and i mean truly understand it if you believe that is the perfect and complete word of God. that every thing in it is to be followed to the letter. I'm sure everyone of us knows places where things clearly contradict each other you, how are you to follow something that is contradicted by something else. denial is how most people do it the church for example. all the demonimations such a divided church mostly because someone chose one passage from the bible and someone else chose another and two contradictory things can not coexist in harmony so the church keeps splitting and here we are.

Jane-I pretty much agree that the old testament most of it anyway is scripture....however Matt made a wrong assumption. Just because Jesus made one refernce to some of the books of the old testament as The Word of God it does not mean that every reference he made to the The Word of God was a reference to scripture, Jesus had a direct line to God. He literally heard THE WORD OF GOD the spoken WORD and 99% of the time he was referencing the Spoken Word of GOD. something that people have forgotten.

I want you to ponder something what is the bible compared to GOD i do not mean what does GOD think of the bible I mean what is the bible and what is GOD, which is limited and which is without limit which contradicts itself and which doesn't which gives life and which has life because it was given life from the other which Loves you and which is just a book about the other the bottom line is we are not going to come to understanding of each other just yet it is not quite the season yet, but can we please come to the understanding that GOD is more than the bible. GOD wants a real relationship with you all. not a reflective one in which he is mirrored from the bible but a face to face. heart to heart at least as close as man can get to GOD while we are still alive, there is nothing in the bible no truth in the world that he will not tell you himself The tearing of the veil in the temple was a sign to all believers that Jesus sacrifice was more than just salvation he opened the door for man's heart to be face to face with GOD"S heart. I'm not saying dont read your bible, their is alot of knowledge in it. but what i am saying is why do we quote the bible and especially verses written by men(which some may or may not be inspired by GOD) when you could learn to Quote GOD himself.
I'm done try to explain in circles. It all boils down to that your view takes your assurance and authority away from you. Instead of reconciling the word with the word, you have taken a critical view of the scriptures and strippted their inspiration and preservation away. Instead of saying theirs a way to know this is still inspired truth and the word doesn't contradct itself. You say well Paul wroten Error here and here and possibiy here. Taking away from the Word of God because you on't like it or can't reconcile it is a serious offnce against the word. I suggest...and I mean his wih Love and not any kind of hostility,that you pray to God for guiance concern his word, and forgiveness for calling it in Error.
Jason i am constantly asking God for his Guidance and correction and he doesnt seem to change my mind. I love the bible. i simply understand what it is. and the reason you cant seem to explain it to me is that you dotn seem to understand what i am talking about. and words can not be offended they are just words. and i'm quite alright as long as i dont offend God.
Sitting around reading the Bible and trying to "do the right thing" does not work, I agree with you on that point. I have known people like that. Their lives are seriously lacking in joy and power.

However, we cannot teach that parts of the Bible are to be ignored.


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