"You can observe a lot by seeing."
ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED?..we may miss it
Jason raised this topic.with the cation "Eternal Security Versus Insecurity" By His grace, i decided to reply it also here. This will help us understand more what is required of us as lead worshipers , worship leaders as well as worship lover and worship followers,and any one at all.
thanks for this topic....and i must commend your boldness.
Its actually beyond quoting verses of the bible but using then to proof what the spirit is saying.
"He that is often reproved, but hardeneth His heart shall come to sudden destruction and that without remedy" says the word!
Its about whoever, whether u have been once (or twice....or thrice ...lol) saved.Note that "often reproved" means more than once,(i am not not excusing the less that once) in one fashion or another-warning,chastisement,scolding or anyhow.The Holy Spirit is capable of doing it however He likes it and that is because God loves us and does not want us to face eternal damnation and destruction.
I want to point out here that salvation is useless if it does not have a relationship with life after here-eternal life.For what shall it profit me and you if we become christians,enjoy the favour of God,as christians,have one delievance or another,one testimony or another,walk in financial prosperity through His grace...or inf act gain and enjoy all these things that pertain to this "world" but loose our souls",No body is saved to perish but with eternal goal, praise God!
So "whosoever" is often reproved of any "SIN" but hardeneth His hearth-(refuses to repent and forsake) is doomed to perish....and that without remedy......So whether a once saved or a never saved,please, once you face destruction and doom....salvation is not coming with you down that direction....sorry u are on your own!
There is nothing else the devil is living for but to fight our salvation while he waits his doom's day.If salvation is once and for all,then the devil,as intelligent as he is shouldn't be fighting us with sins and temptation....it should have known that as soon as one makes the mark of salvation,he is penned everlastingly and indelibly down for heaven.But its not so....He still holds fast to his only ever strongest weapon....SIN,and that is the only thing that can "rubbish" our salvation....if i may use that word.all the sicknesses,all the wickedness,all the pains, all the evil doctrines,all the mediocrities we believe the devil is causing is not for show but to attack our salvation and work out one or two sins that will deny us of our promised eternal inheritance.....and seeing Jesus' face...for "holiness.....without which no man can see God"
Salvation is not just a qualification added to our sinful state of lives to qualify us for blessing and heaven ,but its actually a state of being free from sin through Christ and by the power of the Holy Spirit.(i don't know what theologians say about that...but that is the ministration am getting)....Christ was to be birthed when the isrealites, people of God were very very oppressed and hopeless,in a state of confusion.during one of the prophesies about the birth of Christ,the bible recorded that..."he shall save His people from their SINS"...What mattered then was not the political state of Isreal and the world at large....but the spiritual one.And SIN was the enemy of the moment....not even satan.John the baptist introduced Jesus to a certain people say....this is he..."that taketh away the sins of the world".....
Finally.I have a reverend gentleman win my city....infact living very few kilos from my church with a good but touching testimony.He grew up in the town i am living in and so everything about him is well known by so many people in the city.His experience which i am bout to narrate has evn made him a very popul;ar figure in the christendom here.I use to watch this kind of thin on TBN also....but is easiert o believe becaouse i have a living testimony as a neighbour....oh infact 2 of them....with same story.
Revered Chi Edozie of ABA.This man died as a born again Christian but almost missed heaven but for a second chance by the grace of God.As soon as he left His earthly body,according to Him,he filed hiimself in a a very long line.2 people before,he saw a lady he knew in the world who died a few days before Him.he recorgnised the lady.he know when she died.they were all facing judgement.i will like to do a full story in future. but this lady was a christian,very commited...as he knew her very very well.....but she missed heave,simply becaused there was a lady she had a problem with in the world.Her pastor had settled the case for ,but she just couldn't or refused to forgive the lady that hurt her until the day she died in a motor accident.
To cut it short,she was instantly taken to the left side....ofcourse the doom's side of eternity.she died as a deconess,very active and committed in the church, buried by the National diocese of her denomination,but missed heaven,,,,not becaouse she was never for once saved but there was SIN in her live....and this was plainly made clear to the testifier.Reverend Chiedozie,seeing what happened to her,some how obtained grace to come back to life to continue His ministry this time with a message form beyond! Praise God.
If you doubt this testimony....by the time he pulls off his cloths and you see the scares of hurts done to His dead body by the morturists in his days in the mortuary
The closest to me with this kind of testimony is My father in the Lord.By His great he brought up my father in the Lord so He is my great grand father in the Lord..He died as a "saved" servant of God....came backi wll tell His experience later.
Another servant of God....this time raised by Reinhard Bonke here in Eastern Nigeria....ask TBN....they will tell u everything about this.He died saved....but He has His stories for you.
OH ,,,,,my time is up.....here!
Once saved....not always saved....unless.....
The book of timothy says....."...the foundation of God standeth sure.let every one that nameth the name of the Lord depart from iniquity"SIN...St peter in one of His books...talking about the wrath to come,ofcourse to believers-saved,had this to say..."seeing that these things shall come to pass,what manner of men ought we to be....".I also remeber the Lord jesus many shall come to the door of heave knocking...saying master open for me,for i did this and that miracle,i healed the sick in thy name,raised the dead...ofcourse i 'was',born again,filled saved,and the Lord will say to them "depart for i know thee not"
i just have to leave for fellowship please....
thanks for this topic....and i must commend your boldness.
Its actually beyond quoting verses of the bible but using then to proof what the spirit is saying.
"He that is often reproved, but hardeneth His heart shall come to sudden destruction and that without remedy" says the word!
Its about whoever, whether u have been once (or twice....or thrice ...lol) saved.Note that "often reproved" means more than once,(i am not not excusing the less that once) in one fashion or another-warning,chastisement,scolding or anyhow.The Holy Spirit is capable of doing it however He likes it and that is because God loves us and does not want us to face eternal damnation and destruction.
I want to point out here that salvation is useless if it does not have a relationship with life after here-eternal life.For what shall it profit me and you if we become christians,enjoy the favour of God,as christians,have one delievance or another,one testimony or another,walk in financial prosperity through His grace...or inf act gain and enjoy all these things that pertain to this "world" but loose our souls",No body is saved to perish but with eternal goal, praise God!
So "whosoever" is often reproved of any "SIN" but hardeneth His hearth-(refuses to repent and forsake) is doomed to perish....and that without remedy......So whether a once saved or a never saved,please, once you face destruction and doom....salvation is not coming with you down that direction....sorry u are on your own!
There is nothing else the devil is living for but to fight our salvation while he waits his doom's day.If salvation is once and for all,then the devil,as intelligent as he is shouldn't be fighting us with sins and temptation....it should have known that as soon as one makes the mark of salvation,he is penned everlastingly and indelibly down for heaven.But its not so....He still holds fast to his only ever strongest weapon....SIN,and that is the only thing that can "rubbish" our salvation....if i may use that word.all the sicknesses,all the wickedness,all the pains, all the evil doctrines,all the mediocrities we believe the devil is causing is not for show but to attack our salvation and work out one or two sins that will deny us of our promised eternal inheritance.....and seeing Jesus' face...for "holiness.....without which no man can see God"
Salvation is not just a qualification added to our sinful state of lives to qualify us for blessing and heaven ,but its actually a state of being free from sin through Christ and by the power of the Holy Spirit.(i don't know what theologians say about that...but that is the ministration am getting)....Christ was to be birthed when the isrealites, people of God were very very oppressed and hopeless,in a state of confusion.during one of the prophesies about the birth of Christ,the bible recorded that..."he shall save His people from their SINS"...What mattered then was not the political state of Isreal and the world at large....but the spiritual one.And SIN was the enemy of the moment....not even satan.John the baptist introduced Jesus to a certain people say....this is he..."that taketh away the sins of the world".....
Finally.I have a reverend gentleman win my city....infact living very few kilos from my church with a good but touching testimony.He grew up in the town i am living in and so everything about him is well known by so many people in the city.His experience which i am bout to narrate has evn made him a very popul;ar figure in the christendom here.I use to watch this kind of thin on TBN also....but is easiert o believe becaouse i have a living testimony as a neighbour....oh infact 2 of them....with same story.
Revered Chi Edozie of ABA.This man died as a born again Christian but almost missed heaven but for a second chance by the grace of God.As soon as he left His earthly body,according to Him,he filed hiimself in a a very long line.2 people before,he saw a lady he knew in the world who died a few days before Him.he recorgnised the lady.he know when she died.they were all facing judgement.i will like to do a full story in future. but this lady was a christian,very commited...as he knew her very very well.....but she missed heave,simply becaused there was a lady she had a problem with in the world.Her pastor had settled the case for ,but she just couldn't or refused to forgive the lady that hurt her until the day she died in a motor accident.
To cut it short,she was instantly taken to the left side....ofcourse the doom's side of eternity.she died as a deconess,very active and committed in the church, buried by the National diocese of her denomination,but missed heaven,,,,not becaouse she was never for once saved but there was SIN in her live....and this was plainly made clear to the testifier.Reverend Chiedozie,seeing what happened to her,some how obtained grace to come back to life to continue His ministry this time with a message form beyond! Praise God.
If you doubt this testimony....by the time he pulls off his cloths and you see the scares of hurts done to His dead body by the morturists in his days in the mortuary
The closest to me with this kind of testimony is My father in the Lord.By His great he brought up my father in the Lord so He is my great grand father in the Lord..He died as a "saved" servant of God....came backi wll tell His experience later.
Another servant of God....this time raised by Reinhard Bonke here in Eastern Nigeria....ask TBN....they will tell u everything about this.He died saved....but He has His stories for you.
OH ,,,,,my time is up.....here!
Once saved....not always saved....unless.....
The book of timothy says....."...the foundation of God standeth sure.let every one that nameth the name of the Lord depart from iniquity"SIN...St peter in one of His books...talking about the wrath to come,ofcourse to believers-saved,had this to say..."seeing that these things shall come to pass,what manner of men ought we to be....".I also remeber the Lord jesus many shall come to the door of heave knocking...saying master open for me,for i did this and that miracle,i healed the sick in thy name,raised the dead...ofcourse i 'was',born again,filled saved,and the Lord will say to them "depart for i know thee not"
i just have to leave for fellowship please....
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Richard Leifeste on -
I would like to add that Jesus said, "My sheep know Me, they hear My voice..." If we are in a relationship with Him, and are seeking Him, we can believe we will go to Heaven. He is the author and Finisher of our faith. True relationship with Him is confessing Him before others, worshipping, praying, SEEKING HIM. Jesus holds the keys to the Kingdom. He alone presents us before the Father. We need to get in a TRUE relationship, by seeking Him with all our heart, He will answer.
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Permalink Reply by Richard Leifeste on
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you make a great point about the devil fighting our salvation. like you said, if it was once and for all, then why should satan bother?
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Permalink Reply by Richard Leifeste on
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I remember seeing the video of a minister who had an arguement with his wife..then later that day he had died. he was shown both hell and heaven. he was brought back to life. was he one of those people you mentioned?
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Permalink Reply by Jason Claus on -
first of all, the first verse you used had nothing to do with salvation Prov. 29:1 deals with correction and destruction in terms of kingly rulers and their kingdoms.
Secondly, The devil knows he will be destroyed in the lak of fire, yet he persists in trying to overthrow the Lord. He may be intellegent but his heart and desires make him unstable. Same thing for a belever he may not be able to take his salvation but he will still try and because we are made in he likeness of God and are his children that is enough reason for him to want to tempt us and cause us to sin. and as far as those peoples expierences, "Revered Chi Edozie of ABA.This man died as a born again Christian but almost missed heaven but for a second chance by the grace of God.As soon as he left His earthly body,according to Him" you said it accordig to him. If your going to make an argument for something atleast use the Word. Lastly Matthew 7 isdealing with false proffession. You canknow his because Christ sad, " I NEVER knew you" Those possesed by santanic influne can do miricles and think their doing it in Chrsts name. Christwa speakinin cntext of false teachers ad prophets, and "in that day" is reference to the end time. We know miracles is possible then because the bible tells us so read 1 and 2 thess and evel. that will reveal that much.
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Permalink Reply by Evang. akanimoh raleigh on -
God Has Spoken for Himself.Its a great challenge.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Claus on
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keep reading my disscussions i will deal with all these in them, God Bless
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Permalink Reply by Evang. akanimoh raleigh on
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ANGELSWING,the bible says that the spirit of God beareth witness with our spirit that we are His....And who soever sinneth is of the devil; Its in the state of sinlessness,purity that u have this witness,and its in this state that you can be raptured,If u are in, u are in and if u are out you are out. That is why the Lord said "abide in Me....and I in you".That is the guarantee
Now He that has THE HOPE OF BEING WITH THE LORD "purifieth himself"(worketh out his salvation)
Its possible to be sure of heaven here on earth and infact,the spirit also testifies of that.
I keep saying that SIN will rub us of our salvation and win us over to hell fire despite proclaiming we v been saved.If sin can grieve the Holy Spirit,disrupt our joy,it can also rub us of heaven.
I know of a man,once a believer,latter fell out of faith,started smoking gem profaning the name of the Lord and the christian faith,,became mad,and died a mad man.can some one proof to me that Ananias ans saphira are in heaven?......My brother Forest Brroks did a wonderful blog poem about SIN.you can check it out.Sin Kills brithren....It polutes the temple of the Holy Siprit,the only guarantee that wea are God's children.God bless You.
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Permalink Reply by Evang. akanimoh raleigh on
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A Theory indeed, dear Sister Jenny.but who's theory?Praise God for His mercies for saving us from such sins as alcohol,sex etc...and for bringing u to a place of love with Him.Its a case of from sin to righteousness,satan to God as it stands now.But assume that you happen to have an illicite sex the nest moment,would that have happened on top of love for Jesus?...by the way,the trumpet will sound in a twinkle of an eye,assuming you were enjoying with Bacchus,or dinning with jezebel....i mean assuming u were right in the arms of that satanic sex partner,will the Holy Spirit come there to seperate you and rapture you to heaven...simply because you had so much love for Jesus?.
My dear,to be frank.the issue now is can sin rub us of eternity with jesus?
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Permalink Reply by Jason Claus on
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I personally do not work for my salvation, i work because of my salvation, and you don't turn the grace of God into laciviousness. No matter how you look at it. If you believe action affects your salvation you believe works are involved in your salvation
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Permalink Reply by Evang. akanimoh raleigh on
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Does this mean we have a part to play to make our salvation valid?
Yes,the bible says even though your salvation has been authored,work it out....!If you dont work,then it cant come out,it cant be finished if you don't value it.And to show you value your salvation means you have to keep it undented,uncontaminated with sin,otherwise you will lose it and to get it back....Heb 6:
1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3And this will we do, if God permit.
4For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.
7For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8But that which beareth thorns and briers [is] rejected, and [is] nigh unto cursing; whose end [is] to be burned.
9But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
10For God [is] not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
11And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
12That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
There is need to be careful,with fear and trembling.
1 cor 10 vs 1
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
5But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
6Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
7Neither be ye idolaters, as [were] some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
8Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
9Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
10Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
11Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
God bless you!
Theology is good.but the guidance of the Holy Spirit through His unction is better for better understanding of the scriptures and divine things.
Jason Claus said:I personally do not work for my salvation, i work because of my salvation, and you don't turn the grace of God into laciviousness. No matter how you look at it. If you believe action affects your salvation you believe works are involved in your salvation
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Permalink Reply by Jason Claus on
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Hebrews 6 is refering to those who lose their chance to repentance not salvation, and if that passage was true to the way you refer it would also kill the notion that you can attain salvation after you've lost it. Also the time period in which the wilderness experience occured was during the time that their was no gift of the baptism of the Holy Spirit or the Sealing of the Holy Spirit. The Baptism refered to here is used in a secondary meaning from the primary-an influence which one thing excercises over another. Thats why they were baptized unto Moses and your right they are ensamples meaning not everything is to be taken to apply to the church in an exact literal since because they represented the fully light of the New testament.
d. But with most of them God was not well pleased: Despite all these blessings and spiritual privileges, the Israelites in the wilderness did not please God. Because of all the blessings, out of gratitude, they should have been more pleasing to God, but they were not.
i. Most of them is a hard-hitting understatement. Only two men from the adult generation which left Egypt came into the Promised Land (Joshua and Caleb). Most indeed!
e. For their bodies were scattered in the wilderness: The displeasure of God with the Israelites was evident because they never entered into the Promised Land, but died in the wilderness instead. For all their blessings and spiritual experiences, they never entered into what God really had for them.
I think one of the main things to remember is that God establishes a covenant with those that are saved now, Individuals in the Church. In the time of Moses a spiritual covenant and spiritaul privilages belonged to the nation of Israel saved and unsaved alike. A mixed congrgation.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Claus on
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also I'd like to mention that in the long run even Moses was disqualified from entering into the promised land, but no one would dare say Moses wasn't saved.
Also remember that the ultimate form of discipline from the Lord is early departure from this life.
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