let's get some debate on this
Ive heard people say, sickness is not from God. Ive heard others say, I used to believe that, but God used my own infirmity to build up my character...we all look at Job as an example. It begins with Satan declaring that Job only stays from evil because God has blessed him. Now look at 1:5 ..." When these celebrations ended—sometimes after several days—Job would purify his children. He would get up early in the morning and offer a burnt offering for each of them. For Job said to himself, “Perhaps my children have sinned and have cursed God in their hearts.” This was Job’s regular practice. Now let's jump over to chapter 3:25 (NLT) ..."What I always feared has happened to me. What I dreaded has come true." So it seems that because of fear, dread, that isnt it possible satan was really saying to God "here is an opening, where I can legally attack" Job feared that all he had would be lost, so in other words satan had to have a way to attack him, especially since in chapter 1 verses 9-10 "Satan replied to the Lord, “Yes, but Job has good reason to fear God. 10 You have always put a wall of protection around him and his home and his property. You have made him prosper in everything he does." He couldnt attack Job because he was protected. so he recognized the fear in Job, and he stated his case that here was an openning whereby he had the right to attack Job. satan needs sin to gain a foothold, and fear is not from God. I dont think satan would show up in Heaven's court for no good reason. He wanted to get permission to specifically attack Job, but without a reason he couldnt state his case. God already knew why satan was there, so He simply brought up Job. that's my take..any one have something else? something I overlooked, perhaps?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jason A on -
Are we talking about sickness, like evilness, or sickness as in the common cold, flu, etc.?
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Permalink Reply by Richard Leifeste on -
good question. mainly with sickness in the body. anything is healed by the blood of Jesus. and that can be broken finances, broken relationships, even our physical health takes the same amount of faith as it does to believe we are saved, because it all came from the same work on the Cross. Saved in the new Testament comes from the greek word sozo which means saved -(from hell), healed (sickness removed), delivered(from demonic oppression and things like depression, anxiety, fear, hate, bigotry, etc), made wholes(taking the broken pieces of our lives and turning it into a perfect mosaic of our future..i.e. victim of rape, molestation, abuse, neglect, rejection, mental issues, etc)] Sometimes, it happens instantly, which is a miracle. Other times it comes in seed form, which can take some time. I heard Bill Johnson speak last night and he was at a church about an hour west of me, so I had to make the trip. Its alot better than going all the way to redding, california :) But he said something interesting, well 2 things..1) why would God the Father work against what Jesus did at the Cross? meaning, why would He cause sickness? 2) If we still believe sickness can come from God, then why do we go to the doctor to get healed if this is God's beautiful plan for our lives? :) maybe check out ibethel.org, which as a great source for understanding God Kingdom, and how it relates to our mandate here on Earth. another interesting thing which I keep promoting is the movie/documentary "Finger of God" on youtube.
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Permalink Reply by Richard Leifeste on
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I jsut want to make a general reply, and Im only speaking to my own loss of people, so this is how I view what I have lost. Consider when Jesus heard how John the Baptist was beheaded, He went on a healing rampage. Jesus lost someone He was close to, and He went and fought back. well what does that mean? I believe when we get hit so hard from the enemy, we have the right to return fire. Jesus didn't react. He responded. He fought back by using the opposing power - healing, to go against sickness, death. He raised the dead. When we start believing God we have His authority, Jesus Authority. I havent had the opportunity yet to raise the dead, but its possible God will put me in that same situation. I have more and more operated in healing. I dont superpowers, I am simply releasing Holy Spirit from inside me to do His will.
Richard Leifeste said:good question. mainly with sickness in the body. anything is healed by the blood of Jesus. and that can be broken finances, broken relationships, even our physical health takes the same amount of faith as it does to believe we are saved, because it all came from the same work on the Cross. Saved in the new Testament comes from the greek word sozo which means saved -(from hell), healed (sickness removed), delivered(from demonic oppression and things like depression, anxiety, fear, hate, bigotry, etc), made wholes(taking the broken pieces of our lives and turning it into a perfect mosaic of our future..i.e. victim of rape, molestation, abuse, neglect, rejection, mental issues, etc)] Sometimes, it happens instantly, which is a miracle. Other times it comes in seed form, which can take some time. I heard Bill Johnson speak last night and he was at a church about an hour west of me, so I had to make the trip. Its alot better than going all the way to redding, california :) But he said something interesting, well 2 things..1) why would God the Father work against what Jesus did at the Cross? meaning, why would He cause sickness? 2) If we still believe sickness can come from God, then why do we go to the doctor to get healed if this is God's beautiful plan for our lives? :) maybe check out ibethel.org, which as a great source for understanding God Kingdom, and how it relates to our mandate here on Earth. another interesting thing which I keep promoting is the movie/documentary "Finger of God" on youtube.
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Permalink Reply by Richard Leifeste on
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absolutley, without a doubt. Bill Johnson said "Jesus raised people from the dead, and that shows people don't always dies in God's time."
in that movie Finger of God there is a guy who was dead for a while and was raised to life. people are getting raised back from the dead, but the media never reports it..many times people die, only to come back with an experience to share about their visit to Heaven, Hell, or both. Sidroth.org is pretty awesome. He hosts a Christian show called That's Supernatural. Its the Christian version of a show like "Coast To Coast AM" and others. There are guests who have amazing encounters with the Living God, and some have been showed the horrors of Hell, and the wonders of Heaven
Tammy Henson said:I know Jesus said we were going to be able to do the same things He did when He walked the earth & He said we're going to be able to do even more. But, in reality, do you really think it's in His will to actually try to raise people from the dead - physically that is? I'm just curious.
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Permalink Reply by Richard Leifeste on
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That is the question right there. Personally I let someone go when they are old and I know they are going to Heaven. God has all authority over Heaven and Earth. He just doesnt have control over things in earth. That was given to us, and Satan stole it in the Garden of Eden. Its up to us to take it back. Thats a whole separate issue altogether. Think of a policeman directing traffic. he has the authority, but doesn't neccessarily have control. So he has to assert himself.
I will most certainly demand the spirit return to the body when I know the person who died is in in Hell. But mostly, this is key to doing the will of God. We have to let Holy Spirit guide us. He puts people in our paths and its our job to take up the challenge. Think of it like this. Before you walked into that room, there wasnt a possibility for God's miracle, because you carry His Spirit. The Holy Spirit wants to get out, that is, wants to heal, save, restore, etc, but He needs us individually to agree with Him, then we release Him to do His Will.
This morning I prayed over my grandmother, she has many health issues. I layed hands on her, and said, "Holy Spirit, I release you into her to heal what You want to heal." Her feet werent swollen any more, her pain was gone. I practice releasing the Holy Spirit and asking Him to invade someones body who is sick or in pain. Its good practic, we all gotta start somewhere. And it usually takes a few seconds to maybe a minute.
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Permalink Reply by Richard Leifeste on
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actually what I see happenning right before my eyes is the reaction to the prayer, which is maybe a suprised look, or they say something like "I just felt something happen.." its the work of the Holy Spirt that takes a little time. After I pray sometimes they say, I feel hot over this area, which is the area of the pain or part that needs healing. But its never an unpleasant hot feeling. It warmth. And we know that our God is a Consuming Fire. Its Ok to practice this. I include anyone to help me, because it builds their faith too, when they see the healing. Plus its always more effective when someone is agreeing with you. A month ago I was waking up with flu symptoms. So I got up and once I was awake enough I said " I disagree with these symptoms! These symptoms are lies, and I break agreement with those lies and the demons attached to those lies in the name of Jesus! I declare that I am healed!" It works every time. And I can do this alone, and it gives me greater faith to heal someone else. If you want to see some really cool stuff, maybe start heart healing headaches, and just work your way upfrom there as your faith grows. Maybe start with your own body pain, and put your hand on it and declare "Jesus heals me!"
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Permalink Reply by Richard Leifeste on
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I think the reason it doesnt always happen instantly even though it can, is because He wants us to partner with him. He wants us to work next to Him, side by side. If He immediately did all the work and sort of retreats back into us, or however that works (idk LOL) then that wouldnt be much of a relationship.
I never really understood relationships, and if you want to read more about that I put up my testimony called shattered...anyway, I recall years ago I was married and her friend came over to visit. I was cooking dinner and she wanted to know if she could help. In my mind I thought "why? shes just gonna slow me down" ..I know..that is really messed up. But anyway I politely refused and said youre a guest, so let me do this for you.
Looking back I realize she just wanted to connect with people, my ex and her were both in the Air Force and all their friends and family were far away. But see if the Holy Spirit did that every time, we would never connect with God intimately.
Richard Leifeste said:actually what I see happenning right before my eyes is the reaction to the prayer, which is maybe a suprised look, or they say something like "I just felt something happen.." its the work of the Holy Spirt that takes a little time. After I pray sometimes they say, I feel hot over this area, which is the area of the pain or part that needs healing. But its never an unpleasant hot feeling. It warmth. And we know that our God is a Consuming Fire. Its Ok to practice this. I include anyone to help me, because it builds their faith too, when they see the healing. Plus its always more effective when someone is agreeing with you. A month ago I was waking up with flu symptoms. So I got up and once I was awake enough I said " I disagree with these symptoms! These symptoms are lies, and I break agreement with those lies and the demons attached to those lies in the name of Jesus! I declare that I am healed!" It works every time. And I can do this alone, and it gives me greater faith to heal someone else. If you want to see some really cool stuff, maybe start heart healing headaches, and just work your way upfrom there as your faith grows. Maybe start with your own body pain, and put your hand on it and declare "Jesus heals me!"
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Permalink Reply by Richard Leifeste on
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something that can be really fun is getting kids involved with healing. i was babysitting my 3 nephews a while back and we were all roughhousing, and inevitably someone gets hurt, so i actually declared he was healed in Jesus name, and he of course was..he was so suprised and excited by that. i can get his brothers to lay hands on him and just get them to heal each other. remember there is no jr. Holy Spirit. they have the same Spirit we have once we are saved, the same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead. after that first experience they all got so excited that they were memorizing verses and studying. it was very cute, cuz ya know theyre all the same size sitting at the table and it just looked cute.
Richard Leifeste said:I think the reason it doesnt always happen instantly even though it can, is because He wants us to partner with him. He wants us to work next to Him, side by side. If He immediately did all the work and sort of retreats back into us, or however that works (idk LOL) then that wouldnt be much of a relationship.
I never really understood relationships, and if you want to read more about that I put up my testimony called shattered...anyway, I recall years ago I was married and her friend came over to visit. I was cooking dinner and she wanted to know if she could help. In my mind I thought "why? shes just gonna slow me down" ..I know..that is really messed up. But anyway I politely refused and said youre a guest, so let me do this for you.
Looking back I realize she just wanted to connect with people, my ex and her were both in the Air Force and all their friends and family were far away. But see if the Holy Spirit did that every time, we would never connect with God intimately.
Richard Leifeste said:actually what I see happenning right before my eyes is the reaction to the prayer, which is maybe a suprised look, or they say something like "I just felt something happen.." its the work of the Holy Spirt that takes a little time. After I pray sometimes they say, I feel hot over this area, which is the area of the pain or part that needs healing. But its never an unpleasant hot feeling. It warmth. And we know that our God is a Consuming Fire. Its Ok to practice this. I include anyone to help me, because it builds their faith too, when they see the healing. Plus its always more effective when someone is agreeing with you. A month ago I was waking up with flu symptoms. So I got up and once I was awake enough I said " I disagree with these symptoms! These symptoms are lies, and I break agreement with those lies and the demons attached to those lies in the name of Jesus! I declare that I am healed!" It works every time. And I can do this alone, and it gives me greater faith to heal someone else. If you want to see some really cool stuff, maybe start heart healing headaches, and just work your way upfrom there as your faith grows. Maybe start with your own body pain, and put your hand on it and declare "Jesus heals me!"
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