let's get some debate on this
Ive heard people say, sickness is not from God. Ive heard others say, I used to believe that, but God used my own infirmity to build up my character...we all look at Job as an example. It begins with Satan declaring that Job only stays from evil because God has blessed him. Now look at 1:5 ..." When these celebrations ended—sometimes after several days—Job would purify his children. He would get up early in the morning and offer a burnt offering for each of them. For Job said to himself, “Perhaps my children have sinned and have cursed God in their hearts.” This was Job’s regular practice. Now let's jump over to chapter 3:25 (NLT) ..."What I always feared has happened to me. What I dreaded has come true." So it seems that because of fear, dread, that isnt it possible satan was really saying to God "here is an opening, where I can legally attack" Job feared that all he had would be lost, so in other words satan had to have a way to attack him, especially since in chapter 1 verses 9-10 "Satan replied to the Lord, “Yes, but Job has good reason to fear God. 10 You have always put a wall of protection around him and his home and his property. You have made him prosper in everything he does." He couldnt attack Job because he was protected. so he recognized the fear in Job, and he stated his case that here was an openning whereby he had the right to attack Job. satan needs sin to gain a foothold, and fear is not from God. I dont think satan would show up in Heaven's court for no good reason. He wanted to get permission to specifically attack Job, but without a reason he couldnt state his case. God already knew why satan was there, so He simply brought up Job. that's my take..any one have something else? something I overlooked, perhaps?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by PROPHETESS CAROL on -
Richard
I am with you on this one....i would not be the person that i am today and have the kind of relationship that i have with God if i had not suffered some losses or been tried...we know that the devil is an opportunist because he prooved that in the Garden of Eden...God uses times like these for spiritual growth and to let us see so much about ourselves in relationship to who he is....there is so much to learn and know about God and we surely couldn't know it all in our lifetime nor ever will..."if satan can find something in us"....he goes to God with it and it can become an are of testing and trying for us...but no matter what he does it still works out for our good....i knew the word before i loss my son to Leukemia....i saw the things that the old testament saints went through...but did i want to go through anything??? Not if it was going to hurt to bad anyway and losing my son was the worst and the untold suffering that he went through was just unimaginable....noone wants to ever be faced with the prospect of losing a loved one especially their children....but it was when i lost my son that i began to recognize that God was closer to me than ever....there is a deeper depth and a higher height in God....amen
Jesus was the only one who was given the spirit without measure [John 3:34-35] ....this was his response shortly before his crucifixion...the devil had nothing in him but far to many times...he does have something in us....
John 14:30
30] hereafter i will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh and hath nothing in me....
1 John 1:8-9
8] if we say we have no sin....we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us...
9] if we confess our sin, he is faithful and just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness....amen
Triumphant In Jesus
Your Sister and Friend
Carol~A Song of Praise~
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Permalink Reply by Debbie Hasty on -
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
According to this scripture God does give Satan the right to take away from us if there is a door that is left open for him to do so, but God also instructed Satan to not physically touch Job. As Job lost everything and even had sickness come upon him, he never once sinned against God.
Job 1:20 Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshiped,
Job 1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
Our flesh will get sick and we might lose everything we have, but if we are faithful in trusting the Lord for His promises like Job did then we need not worry or fear what can come against us as when we come out of the trials there is always a blessing waiting for us. It is through our trials and tribulations that we should be strengthened in the faith of Christ as a witness and testimony of His mercy and grace.
We know that God is no respecter of person and he is not going to put sickness on one person and not another or bless one and not another. God does not tempt us to test our faith, James 1:13, 14, but God will allow Satan to take away from us as He did Job and it is up to us if we are going to praise God in the good times and in the bad times or are we going to curse him and blame Him when we face the trials in our lives.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Claus on -
1. Sickness is caused from the natural result of the fallen state of man
2. Sickness can be used of God for testing and chastizment.
3. Sickness is caused by the enemy
Does God make you sick, I don't believe so, but I believe that God will allow sickness to come upon you for specific purposes. Does that mean everytime you get sick its God or the Devil...no we have to remember the fallen state of man in this world. Also remember that the level at which these things can occur is also based on whether your saved or not, each have different levels of protection.
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Permalink Reply by Richard Leifeste on -
hey Tammy---i think what im saying is do you believe sickness is from God or from the enemy, or both? this issue I think is ambiguous as far as what we understand. God isnt the author of confusion...one thing I know is when we dont believe the exact correct thing, God doesnt tear the roof off the building and say NO! LOL....a better understanding comes from the Holy Spirit throughout our lives...well basically just trying to provoke thought
Tammy Henson said:Can you give a little more of a hint about what you're asking. I'm not sure what you are asking or are wanting to talk about. Do you mind refreshing it please?
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Permalink Reply by Richard Leifeste on
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hey Carol--Im sorry you lost your son...i noticed that the most deep and profound answers come from mothers losing their kids...i dont have any kids, but I have lost a cousin to
Leukemia when he was 15....we prayed constantly and he went into remission twice. the Lord chose to bring him into perfect health by taking him home....since then I have lost uncles, 2 grandfathers, and some friends. its hard to apply teaching to this but I will say if these things didnt happen, I never would have been angry with God, and after substance abuse, divorce, and a bunch of other things I never would be where I am today. Gods plan is perfect, even when pain is involved
Carol~♪♫♬A Song of Praise ♪♫♬~ said:Richard
I am with you on this one....i would not be the person that i am today and have the kind of relationship that i have with God if i had not suffered some losses or been tried...we know that the devil is an opportunist because he prooved that in the Garden of Eden...God uses times like these for spiritual growth and to let us see so much about ourselves in relationship to who he is....there is so much to learn and know about God and we surely couldn't know it all in our lifetime nor ever will..."if satan can find something in us"....he goes to God with it and it can become an are of testing and trying for us...but no matter what he does it still works out for our good....i knew the word before i loss my son to Leukemia....i saw the things that the old testament saints went through...but did i want to go through anything??? Not if it was going to hurt to bad anyway and losing my son was the worst and the untold suffering that he went through was just unimaginable....noone wants to ever be faced with the prospect of losing a loved one especially their children....but it was when i lost my son that i began to recognize that God was closer to me than ever....there is a deeper depth and a higher height in God....amen
Jesus was the only one who was given the spirit without measure [John 3:34-35] ....this was his response shortly before his crucifixion...the devil had nothing in him but far to many times...he does have something in us....
John 14:30
30] hereafter i will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh and hath nothing in me....
1 John 1:8-9
8] if we say we have no sin....we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us...
9] if we confess our sin, he is faithful and just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness....amen
Triumphant In Jesus
Your Sister and Friend
Carol~A Song of Praise~
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Permalink Reply by Richard Leifeste on
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i think as long as there is sin in our lives, satan can find a foothold to attack..and who among us is without sin..I think we must pray for God's grace over us daily
Jason Claus said:1. Sickness is caused from the natural result of the fallen state of man
2. Sickness can be used of God for testing and chastizment.
3. Sickness is caused by the enemy
Does God make you sick, I don't believe so, but I believe that God will allow sickness to come upon you for specific purposes. Does that mean everytime you get sick its God or the Devil...no we have to remember the fallen state of man in this world. Also remember that the level at which these things can occur is also based on whether your saved or not, each have different levels of protection.
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Permalink Reply by Richard Leifeste on
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heres my reply..i believe sickness doesnt come from God, but from the enemy. God doesnt inflict us with sickness to punish or teach us something. thats child abuse. our punishment in life happens when we sin. if we dont repent, we give the enemy an openning to attack. we need to settle this in our hearts and not waver. if were to operate in healing like Jesus commanded when He said "go and destroy the works of the devil", we need to get some core values here. God isnt the Great Punisher. He is the Great what? Physician.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Claus on
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I think you should read the account of Pauls thorn in the flesh, while it doesn't exactly say sickness, and we don't know what the thorn was (most agree it was an eye alement)
It does show God allowing Satan to buffet :
(Kolaphizo-1 to strike with the fist, give one a blow with the fist.
2) to maltreat, treat with violence and contumely)
Paul inorder to keep him Humble from the glory of a revelation he received. Since God's intentions are always pure it isn't considered Child abuse, put chastizing. 2 Cor. chapter 12 It's awsome, if you look at the root of the word Kolaphizo it is Kolazo- which means:
1) to lop or prune, as trees and wings
2) to curb, check, restrain
3) to chastise, correct, punishment
4) to cause to be punished
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Permalink Reply by Jason Claus on
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i agree glad you brought that up
Tammy Henson said:Jason, I tend to believe that the reason we don't know what Paul's affliction was is so everyone can relate to it & place their afflictions within this verse. Does that make sense?
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Permalink Reply by Richard Leifeste on
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this is good stuff, Jason. this is my take...Paul had character issues. we all do. but people can operate in all the gifts while still having plenty of flaws. just look at the church of Corinth. they had all the gifts, and were at the same time the most immoral. none among us is sinless, and even Paul had spiritual pride, as did Peter...Paul really(and I dont want to focus on the negative) but he tried really hard to remain humble, yet others he brought to Christ were the "super apostles"..he took little jabs where he could and tried not to cross the line of pride. but they were highly regarded, while he was torn down...obviously Paul was given the greates assignment next to Peter, one to the Jews, and another to the gentiles. but he wasnt getting the credit or recognition he felt was due...i for one would agree with him, but thats another topic. I bring up Paul because he wouldnt let go of the recognition he was due, and that was, unfortunately spiritual pride..I believe God wouldve removed the issue had Paul humbled himself and allowed others to take all the glory(though undeserved)...let me get to another point, though. saved, in the new testament comes froom the greek word sozo. translated, it says 4 things...saved, healed, delivered, made whole. It is God's will that all are saved(sozo)...and remember, by His stripes we were healed...in Isaiah it sais were healed, so both writers had a different view from the Cross. both pre- and post-. Jesus purchased healing for the body, and just like in faith we receive salvation from hell, it is through the same faith we receive healing. when we agree with God, and recieve healing for our bodies an we did when we recieved salvation for our spirit, we are now in line with the will of the Father. but through free will we dont always agree with God, even though we dont understand, we by default arent in agreement. "...be ye transformed by the renewing of your minds(sets)..." i have to tell you i got so offended when someone told me this, that i practically yelled at this poor lady. i felt really bad, later, but i had a religious, doctrinal mindset. if i wasnt operating in this, then i had to adopt a doctrine that allowed me to cope with not seeing the supernatural. this was so difficult, and I jealously guarded the Word. but one thing i learned is that God never contridicts His Word. but He will contradict my understanding of His Word. He has no problem whatsoever with offending me. so I pray that He offends me, and the sooner I get offended, the sooner i can repent and say, OK Lord, this is new to me. what are you showing me? In orderto receive this, I must first ask for a spirit of wisdom and revelation. man im tired of typing LOL I'll come back here
Jason Claus said:I think you should read the account of Pauls thorn in the flesh, while it doesn't exactly say sickness, and we don't know what the thorn was (most agree it was an eye alement)
It does show God allowing Satan to buffet :
(Kolaphizo-1 to strike with the fist, give one a blow with the fist.
2) to maltreat, treat with violence and contumely)
Paul inorder to keep him Humble from the glory of a revelation he received. Since God's intentions are always pure it isn't considered Child abuse, put chastizing. 2 Cor. chapter 12 It's awsome, if you look at the root of the word Kolaphizo it is Kolazo- which means:
1) to lop or prune, as trees and wings
2) to curb, check, restrain
3) to chastise, correct, punishment
4) to cause to be punished
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Permalink Reply by Katrina Brown on -
We all have a purpose God is in control of that. However, this world has lost sight of God so therefore Satan has more control. Unfortunately, I believe this book shows that even the most righteous can be tempted by Satan. We also have to realize the more we try to do God's work the harder Satan will come against us. If he can prevent us from spreading the gospel he will do that. See Satan doesn't have to work on the lost. They are right where he wants them living their life for them and not for Jesus. So as long as he can keeps the Christians quiet, he will be fine. In the end it all comes down to souls. I lost a friend 13 years ago from a car accident. I was 14 and I stayed on my knees for 11 days praying for healing. God woke me up and said Give me the Glory for I have healed him. These words I will always remember. Immediately I had got on my knees and praised him. I was unaware at the time what kind of healing God had done to my friend. That night my friend's Uncle spoke with him about salvation even though he was in a coma. There was a single tear that rolled down his face that they took as him accepting Jesus into his heart. I don't have a doubt in my mind where he is not because of the tear, but because of God's words. I think I would not have made it without those words. God had to give me something so I may heal and move on with my life. But this is been 13 years and he is still using my friends life and death for his glory.
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Permalink Reply by Richard Leifeste on
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i had an unusual incident a few months ago...i had boldly declared in front of my pagan boss and everyone at a restaurant i worked at, "as sure as Christ died for our sins, this boy is healed"...referring to a coworker at the hospital with her youngest son that was dying. well i pull into the driveway late that night and God said to me, "and what if he isn't healed? Am I still Soverign?...well before jumping to the right answer I thought that question deserved a well thought out response before jumping to yes!! so i pleaded my case" Lord, this is your opportunity to heal the boy, bring my boss to repentance, glorify Your name, and ...not make me look bad" nevertheless I said. Yes. You are still Soverign. I cried for a long time, and the next day I came in believe me everyone couldnt wait to give me the news he had died. So I brought some groceries for the mom to work, i didnt really know what else to do. She must have heard and wasnt too thrilled with me, and of course, we have an awkward confrontation...i simply said, Im so sorry. She said its not OK, and I said I will keep praying. so I and a few others prayed for peace for her. 2 weeks later she comes back and said that "I dont understand how its possible, but I have peace." I told her we prayed that over her. over time she would ask questions that burdoned her, and with the grace of God He gave me the right responses. Now I don't know why the Lord brings home children, I lost a young cousin to Leukemia and he was like my baby brother. I dont know why He brings home children and mothers suffer greatly. I wish I knew that answer. But I also know He puts people in our path. Ever heard that expression, You don't have to be able, just available. It is the kindness of God that leads us to repentance. He shows His kindness through healing, burdons lifted, grace to the weak, and freedom to those in shame and guilt. Luke 4:18-19:
"18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,
for he has anointed me to bring Good News to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim that captives will be released,
that the blind will see,
that the oppressed will be set free,
19 and that the time of the Lord’s favor has come.[f]”
Katrina Brown said:We all have a purpose God is in control of that. However, this world has lost sight of God so therefore Satan has more control. Unfortunately, I believe this book shows that even the most righteous can be tempted by Satan. We also have to realize the more we try to do God's work the harder Satan will come against us. If he can prevent us from spreading the gospel he will do that. See Satan doesn't have to work on the lost. They are right where he wants them living their life for them and not for Jesus. So as long as he can keeps the Christians quiet, he will be fine. In the end it all comes down to souls. I lost a friend 13 years ago from a car accident. I was 14 and I stayed on my knees for 11 days praying for healing. God woke me up and said Give me the Glory for I have healed him. These words I will always remember. Immediately I had got on my knees and praised him. I was unaware at the time what kind of healing God had done to my friend. That night my friend's Uncle spoke with him about salvation even though he was in a coma. There was a single tear that rolled down his face that they took as him accepting Jesus into his heart. I don't have a doubt in my mind where he is not because of the tear, but because of God's words. I think I would not have made it without those words. God had to give me something so I may heal and move on with my life. But this is been 13 years and he is still using my friends life and death for his glory.
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