Circumcision
I am posting this discussion trying to get a more precise opinion on circumcision
as it is still practised, not only among Jews and Muslims,
but among Christians, who are doing so out of family traditions where somebody at some former time started to do so..and nobody remembers really what the first reason was..
or should Christian men be circumcised, just like Jesus was/is?
And if so, certainly not at young or baby age, but out of their own decision, just as with baptism?
Let me know scriptures, and your point of views. Thank you!
I know that God never changes, He is the same yesterday, today, tomorrow.
The Bible says different things on this issue.
Eze. 44/9
This is what the Sovereign LORD says: No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and flesh is to enter my sanctuary, not even the foreigners who live among the Israelites.
Rom 2/28+29
A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical.
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having cancelled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.
Rom. 4/11
And he (Abraham) received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.
Gal 5/6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
as it is still practised, not only among Jews and Muslims,
but among Christians, who are doing so out of family traditions where somebody at some former time started to do so..and nobody remembers really what the first reason was..
or should Christian men be circumcised, just like Jesus was/is?
And if so, certainly not at young or baby age, but out of their own decision, just as with baptism?
Let me know scriptures, and your point of views. Thank you!
I know that God never changes, He is the same yesterday, today, tomorrow.
The Bible says different things on this issue.
Eze. 44/9
This is what the Sovereign LORD says: No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and flesh is to enter my sanctuary, not even the foreigners who live among the Israelites.
Rom 2/28+29
A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical.
No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.
Col 2/13+14When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having cancelled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.
Rom. 4/11
And he (Abraham) received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them.
Gal 5/6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
Tags: Abraham, Circumcision, Cross, Jews, circumcised, faith, flesh, heart, law, uncircumcised
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Astrid on -
All of my boys have been circumcised as little kids/babies, too, but that was out of simple traditional reasons, as all men in my husbands family are.. Further it seems as if only a circumcised man it a true man in their eyes somehow..
We let them get circumcised long before we became newborn Christians.
I know the health reasons, the only true medical reason I can accept today is that of phimosis, all others such as hygenic reasons or transmitting cancer-causing bacterias into women are no 100% convicting reasons to me, also that belief that a circumcised man would become a better (enduring) lover is wrong...
You see, after being Christians I also first thought: wow, now they are even circumcised as Jesus was.
But I also remember the pain they were going through although the surgeries were made with full narcotics..
And they never have been given a chance to choose for themselves, if or if not they wanted to be circumcised...It was plain violence against them. It cannot be undone (although some adult circumcised men are hanging weights on their best piece in order to make things undone.)
Furthermore, don't you think that God made men, just like women, too, totally complete and well???
I mean every little cell or skin has its reason and function, and foreskins, too..
I am just confused why God first tells His people to be circumcised, and then later as Jesus fulfilled all laws, it didnt matter, if or if not a man is..So there is no real necessitiy to keep on with this outward form of circumcision as God is pleased only by the circumcision of their hearts, of everybody's heart, also of us women.
And, how come that pagan people have the same tradition??
Question over questions..
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Permalink Reply by Astrid on
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Please read my answer to Tammy.
Reg. health or hygenic reasons I might say that circumcision is no substitute for washing..and I am sure you know what I mean ;-)..
So if physical circumcision is no longer required as only the true circumcision of the heart is pleasing God, why then there still exists circumcision among Christians..
I might add, all of my husband's family are Christians, and I heard that many men in the USA are also circumcised as babies..so why?
And what is God's will in that field?
To be also physically circumcised like Jesus? Like all Jews? but all non-circumcised are judged only by the attitude of their hearts, not body-parts..
Or is circumcision no longer a wish of God, and therefore completely unnecessary if not even against the will of God?
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Permalink Reply by Astrid on
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So, sorry for making anybody feel uncomfortable with this, was not my intension. But it truly doesnt feel right to me, if we Christians let their kids being circumcised merely to religious, traditional reasons.(.NOT medical reasons)
What is done BEFORE one came to Christ, cannot be undone anyway, and it wouldnt count.
And praise the Lord, God opened my eyes and let me re-read the following scripture more precisely. I hope it will help all those who had been thinking about this issue, as it seems to be still a daily habit, and the consequences pretty severe..
But if I am wrong, please correct me..
Gal 5
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is required to obey the whole law.
4 You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
5 But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope.
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Permalink Reply by Astrid on
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:-D, no Tammy, I dont feel offended at all, I am glad that you are not offended by my discussion!
I also wanted to avoid all those technical details, thats why I didnt list them up on the very start.
No back to your question.
I was asking all about this topic as I was confused which way would be God's way. Background: My husband was on the phone some days ago, as one of his friends asked him for the address of the doctor where we had let our sons being operated on for circumcision. (To emphasize again: although my husband's family is Christian (not born-again mostly), every boy has to be circumcised due to traditional and ethnic/tribe reasons. And I rather preferred them being circumcised here, under known medical circumstances and after-care, rather than for them being circumcised somewhere behind a bush in his country. Plus I thought that they would be more accepted in my husbands home..)
But now, after being Christians, I know by the Word of God, that circumcision doesnt count anylonger, that by God's grace only and by the death-offering of Jesus we have been all justified, redeemed and set free from any former religious law, like circumcision before was also a measure to gain justification before God. But we dont need that anymore.
I want to be able to give a correct answer to my boys if they should ever ask me, why I did, and what God says about it.
I also want to be prepared if anytime in future maybe the discussion will come to it with anybody.
But also I will continue with this above mentioned telephone call, as I heard my Christian hubby encouraging his friend to let his boy circumcise, although he knows now, that in Christ there is no need to be circumcised. And he was talking about tradition..and I was not able to give him a good scripture in return.. that is how I started to look up for this topic..
So, this is my story behind it, and I am glad that God helped me, by all your answers as well as with this scripture in Gal 5.
And I still hope that it will be helpful for others one day somehow..
Thank you, Tammy, and Barry, too, for giving your statements..
In Christ love
Astrid
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Permalink Reply by Alain M. Paguntalan on -
Here is your answer Astrid!
Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, Jehovah appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Gen 17:2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
Gen 17:3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
Gen 17:4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be the father of a multitude of nations.
Gen 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for the father of a multitude of nations have I made thee.
Gen 17:6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee and to thy seed after thee.
Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land of thy sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
Gen 17:9 And God said unto Abraham, And as for thee, thou shalt keep my covenant, thou, and thy seed after thee throughout their generations.
Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee: every male among you shall be circumcised.
Gen 17:11 And ye shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of a covenant betwixt me and you.
Gen 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every male throughout your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any foreigner that is not of thy seed.
Gen 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
Gen 17:14 And the uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
Gen 17:15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
Gen 17:16 And I will bless her, and moreover I will give thee a son of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples shall be of her.
Gen 17:17 Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is a hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?
Gen 17:18 And Abraham said unto God, Oh that Ishmael might live before thee!
Gen 17:19 And God said, Nay, but Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his seed after him.
Gen 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
Gen 17:21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
Gen 17:22 And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.
Gen 17:23 And Abraham took Ishmael his son, and all that were born in his house, and all that were bought with his money, every male among the men of Abraham's house, and circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in the selfsame day, as God had said unto him.
Gen 17:24 And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.
Gen 17:25 And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.
Gen 17:26 In the selfsame day was Abraham circumcised, and Ishmael his son.
Gen 17:27 And all the men of his house, those born in the house, and those bought with money of a foreigner, were circumcised with him.
Its not a tradition but a covenant! Pass to generation to other generation. This is not only for a Jews but for all of us as foreigners.
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Permalink Reply by Alain M. Paguntalan on
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They debate because they are the chosen people and circumcise. But Christ said, the real Jew is circumcise in the heart. If you talking physically it depends on you if you will not be circumcise. : )
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